Miriam Schulman: Personal Investment for Financial Success
Validation in entrepreneurship can be a hard thing to come by, especially when so many on that path take such indirect ways of getting there.
It’s a topic I love to revisit, as evidenced by its regular discussion on my podcast and references in keynote speeches. It’s even an underlying theme of my upcoming second book, Small Ball, Big Dreams.
In some instances, whatever it is a person is doing now simply didn’t use to exist. And when you can’t imagine something happening, it can be next to impossible to aspire to it. Other times, people realize that the thing they thought the wanted wasn’t it after all.
One recent guest on Rounding the Bases was a little bit of both.
Her name is Miriam Schulman, an award-winning curator of inspiration who traded her career on Wall Street for one in watercolor. But her masterpiece is the community she built for creative professionals where skill and profitability intersect.
By leveraging lessons from the world’s biggest exchange, she empowers others to build the thriving businesses they were meant for. Giving them more than the tools they need to achieve, but the validation they need to sustain.
SINGLE: The Wakeup call
Miriam began her career in the financial capital of the US. She did not have privileged childhood, so put her math skills to use after college in a lucrative line of work.
She was in the World Trade Center when it was bombed in 1993. And though she was on maternity leave on 9/11, the reality is that she would have perished had she been in the office that day. It was the wakeup call she needed.
“That was my aha moment,” she said. “Life is too short, and that was a sign from the universe not to go back.”
She didn’t know then that she would become an artist. In fact, at the time, she didn’t believe she could even make a living being one. Her entire life, people had said it couldn’t be done. But she knew for sure she would never return to Wall Street…and it didn’t take long before she got validation of her decision.
DOUBLE: Choosing to believe
Sports and entrepreneurship both demand a certain type of mindset for success, and it all begins with what you believe to be true.
“if you have a thought and you think it enough, it becomes your belief,” Miriam shared.
She went on to explain that believe in something is going to - or at least can - work is often times the first step in finding creative solutions.
You become less afraid of pivoting and more apt to try different ways of achieving your goal. And as long as you continue to believe, you will continue to pursue every possible path to achievement.
“You’ve got to be very careful about these thoughts that you’re telling yourself,” she said, “because you make them true.”
TRIPLE: A Time-tested gift
Miriam’s pivot from the rat race of Wall Street to a self-employed portrait artist was significant, to say the least. But as the Surrealist artist Henri Matisse once said, creativity takes courage.
She found a new kind of success selling her paintings, but the lightbulb really went off one day while teaching Pilates.
“They wanted me to sell personal training packages,” Miriam recalled of the sales tactics she was learning.
It was then that she realized those same skills would help her - and others - sell art.
“I’ve become a student of marketing ever since,” she said. “And that is the gift I give my clients … time tested strategies that will work for anyone.”
HOME RUN: Success in the making
In the two-plus decades since Miriam jumped head first into entrepreneurship, her mode of creative expression has continued to evolve.
A journey that began with watercolors led her to become a best-selling business author, a podcaster and a seven-figure business owner.
By all accounts, a very successful - if unexpected - story. I was curious, though, what drove her to continue pushing further, despite knowing she had already made it.
“To be able to prove people wrong,” she told me. “The people who said I couldn’t do it? No. I did it.”
And I’d have to agree. Because shattering your goals when you were the only one who believed they were possible in the first place is the most satisfying validation of all.
Listen to the full interview here or tune in to Rounding the Bases every Tuesday, available wherever you get your podcasts.
LEARN MORE ABOUT validation FROM JOEL
Book Joel Goldberg for your next corporate event. He draws on over 25 years of experience as a sports broadcaster. In addition, he brings unique perspectives and lessons learned from some of the world’s most successful organizations. Whatever your profession, Joel is the keynote speaker who can help your team achieve a championship state of mind.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Joel Goldberg 0:18
Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Rounding The Bases, presented by Community America Credit Union: Invested In You. I've got a really fun, cool episode today. I, as all of you, I think know, unless you're stumbling upon this for the first time, that I love storytelling. I love the journey. I love the just everything that goes into where someone ends up, because it's never a direct line. And so this is a really good one today. On top of that, we're going to end up, I think, with some baseball trash talk, which I'll explain in a moment. I'm all for it. Everybody knows this is not a baseball podcast, but it always ends up there in some form or another. A quick shout out to my friends at Chief of Staff Kansas City. Whether you're in KC, whether you're in New York, one of the coasts, or wherever it might be, if you're in the market for a job, if you are on the hunt to hire the right person, if you're just looking for a resource, check them out. I partner with them. We've got a big event coming up in November as well. Chiefofstaffkc.com. Making connections that matter. My connection today comes from a previous guest, Michael Schein, who has connected me with some amazing people. And my guest today is an award winning curator of inspiration. Her name is Miriam Shulman, a best selling business author and entrepreneur who traded a career on Wall Street for one in watercolor. But her masterpiece is something called The Inspiration Place, a community for creative professionals where skill and profitability intersect. By leveraging lessons from the world's biggest exchange, this award-winning artist does more than add beauty to the world. She empowers others to invest in themselves and build the thriving business they were meant for. I will not hold it against her, just as I say to some of my family members, that she is a New York Yankees fan. I am happy to be joined right now. Let's just throw it right out there. Right?
Miriam Schulman 2:18
How'd you guess that? Is it, because I have one of these in every color? And for those who can't see me, I have the very chic tan Yankee cap. I have a black one. I have a white one. I have one in brat green. Now to like, stay with stay up to date.
Joel Goldberg 2:35
I'm telling you what, like, we're recording this on October 8, which is in between games two and three of the series, and I full well understand that when this airs on October 15, one of these two teams will be in the American League Championship Series. Detroit, if you're if you're lucky, no, but and one won't. So I sort of wanted to release that today, so we can, we can get all this tension out there. But I do think it's probably fun after the fact, when people are listening and being like, boy, they have no idea what just happened. They have no idea about that big home run, they have no idea about that Bill Buckner error. They have no idea what's going on. So there is, like, it is kind of a fun time of year, and I just love this matchup of two old rivals from the 70s that in the last 10 years, only one of these two teams has won a world championship, and it's the small market, Kansas City Royals, but maybe this will be your year.
Miriam Schulman 3:35
Yeah. Well, I my doorman asked me if my husband knew I was doing this interview today, and I just going to have my Elaine moment and wear my Yankee cap on the Joel Goldberg podcast. You know, you know the episode I'm talking about, right?
Joel Goldberg 3:53
Yeah, of course. I'm just wondering, you know, if anybody wants to be the assistant to the traveling secretary and and we could bring Costanza into the mix as well. But fun, fun stuff. Fun times. I We haven't even talked about your career yet. We're four minutes in. We'll get there in a moment. But I, I will say this, and it actually does. It is a nice segue to your career as well. There's nothing like the energy. I've been telling people this leading into the first two games of this series. There's nothing like the energy of New York, and there's nothing like the energy up in the Bronx at Yankee Stadium. And, you know, the Mets have their own energy. That's a totally different thing. I'm not sure if I can explain that as well as the Bronx, because I've been in the American League for the last 17 years. There's just something about going up to the Bronx, positive energy, negative energy, whatever it is, there's something truly unique about New York. And I, I'm going there just because it's been certainly, I think a part of your career, right? I mean, a major career shift from Wall Street to the world of art in New York.
Miriam Schulman 4:57
Yeah. I mean New York, it. It. I'm just at the epicenter of everything. And there used to be this old poster. You're probably old enough to remember. It was New Yorkers view of the world, and so it has map of the United States. It's from, I think it's from in like a New Yorker cartoon. And the map of the United States, you see New York on one side, and then there's basically nothing in between. And then you see California, and then maybe it, like, refers to, okay, yeah. And there's London over here, like New Yorker. We think we're the, the epicenter of the world. So that's kind of, that's kind of what I'm like.
Joel Goldberg 5:31
Yeah, no, it's all right. And you know, you're just reinforcing the inferiority complex that all of us in the Midwest and flyover states have. But we, by the way, love, those of us that are in Kansas City love it here. It's, it's thriving. And it's not just the sports and the World Cup that's coming in. A great art scene, by the way, you know, thriving art scene and an incredible, incredible Symphony Hall and on and on. This is a hidden gem. People would tell you that wherever you're at and come to Kansas City, and so suddenly, this is brought to you by the Chamber of Commerce of Commerce of Kansas City. We got our barbecue anyway. I just, I was thinking about all that and the silliness, not silliness, but the fun, really, of Royals and Yankees. And there's a whole younger generation that has only heard about how hated that was, you know, George Brent and Reggie Jackson and all that stuff. But, you know, I guess they say, what is it? If you can make it, make it there you make it anywhere. And you had, I think, from everything that I've heard and read, you had your career on Wall Street. You were on a certain path.
Miriam Schulman 5:34
I was. So there's a very famous book. Michael, Michael Lewis has put out a lot of books, but his most famous one is probably Liars Poker, and it was basically about the thugs on Wall Street. It's like the mafia, and that's who I worked for, those guys when I was on Wall Street. So, like, not only was I working for Wall Street, but I was working for like, the famous guys who, you know, the stereotypes of what people talk about.
Joel Goldberg 6:38
Wolf of Wall Street type of stuff.
Miriam Schulman 7:04
Yeah. I didn't see, I didn't see drugs with my the people I worked with. But there's this very famous story where and people who like bet on sports might appreciate this. There's a very famous story in Liar's Poker, where the guy, the trader, bets a million dollars for a hand of poker. And when I first started working for this firm, I asked people, Hey, is that true? And my friend John told me, Oh no, it wasn't for a million dollars. It was for a finger. Like the bet that if you lose, you have to cut off a finger. Like with one of those cigar cutters. So it's like, oh, okay, real deal. It's the real deal. So that was the world that I worked in, and I was at the World Trade Center when it was bombed in 93 and I was shocked that people didn't leave. I was like, Do you see what's going on out there? Why are we still working? So then when 911 happened, and I had, I wasn't working at that moment, at at in corporate, I just think, I think, God, I'm not working there anymore. I would be dead. I'd be one of the dead people. So not to make light of it, but when 911 happened, that was my aha moment. That life is too short, and that was a sign from the universe not to go back to Wall Street. I was taking maternity leave at that at that time, not to go back to Wall Street, but to do something else with my life. And at first I didn't know I would become an artist. I didn't believe I could make a living that way, um, but I knew I wasn't going to go back to Wall Street.
Joel Goldberg 8:53
You had the art in you, obviously, right? You just never thought about it?
Miriam Schulman 8:56
It's not like, it was like, oh, and now I'll become an artist. I just never, I just always was told you can't make a living that way, right? So
Joel Goldberg 9:05
There's a lot there that I want to get to, because I think that that part of what you're doing, I mean, I know it's for artists. But, I mean, I think that there's, there's a bigger picture, right? There's thinking big of, if you've always been told you can only do it this way, or you can't do it that way, that that maybe there is a way, right? And then maybe that's the spirit of an artist's creativity. I'm not sure.
Miriam Schulman 9:30
Well, there's so much that, as you know Joel for for doing this podcast, there's so much in sports and in entrepreneurship that's about mindset and everything starts with the what you what you believe to be true. So that's why I start off Artpreneur with Choose To Believe. That's the first chapter of the book, which, by the way, the listeners can get that for free. It's Shulmanart.com forward slash, believe. So you can read that chapter and find out what I'm. Talking about there. But the point is, is that something, if you have a thought and you think it enough, that becomes your belief, that's all a belief, really is a thought that you've practiced. So you got to be very careful about these thoughts that you're telling yourselves, because you make them true. And that's not by some woo magical way. But if I believe, you know, if I were to give you, Joel like 10 envelopes and say, there's a million dollars in all of them, as long as you believe me, you will open every single last one of those. You're not going to open three and say, Oh, well, that didn't work. But if you don't believe it's true, I don't think this is going to work, you know. So then when you believe, you get creative. You pivot. Okay, that didn't work, all right, I have to do a knuckleball now. You know, whatever it is like you have to you keep trying different ways to get the get what it is that you want. As long as you believe that there is going to be a way, you will keep trying every single last way.
Joel Goldberg 10:56
It's interesting, because a lot of people give up, right? So I guess in that case, it's a lack of belief or a lack of conviction, or both.
Miriam Schulman 11:03
Uh, yeah, it you have to have relentless, relentless commitment to succeed in entrepreneurship. As an artist, anything that you that is really worth having, you have to go all the way and not just somewhat of the way, just not like, oh, I sort of tried that and it didn't work for me.
Joel Goldberg 11:23
So let's go back to the pre finger chopping era of your amazing, isn't it, of your life. I'm glad that never happened.
Miriam Schulman 11:33
I think I put that so I put that in my book. There's a whole chapter about Wall Street in there, and my publishers were just shaking their head. Nobody wants to read this. It's my it's my legit everyone's favorite chapter in the whole book. So like, Yeah,
Joel Goldberg 11:44
So, like, yeah. Hello, publishers. Sometimes you know the instinct of the author is indeed correct. What you know growing up, what did you want to do? And then as you got to Wall Street, did you think you were doing it?
Miriam Schulman 11:57
Okay, so I did not grow up in privilege. My father passed away when I was five years old. I went to college on financial aid, and some people say you're not gonna make a living that way. Well, I really didn't have choice. It's not like somebody was gonna fund me. So I was like, all right, the exit doors are marked with college education right now, I'm going for that. And I said, Well, if the whole point is to make money, where can I make as much as possible? So that's why I went to Wall Street. It's like I was being told, this is the whole point. I was like, Fine, show me where the money is. So that's what, that's what led me to Wall Street. And I am good at math. So it's not like, you know, this was something that was in my wheelhouse to do.
Joel Goldberg 12:47
Well, I mean, I think that there's, I think your story is very similar to a lot of people's who will take the money, versus maybe where the passion or the the true interests are, because, hey, we gotta pay the bills. We gotta survive. We gotta do what it takes. And then, then you got a bunch of us, a bunch of us, but people that are telling you, find your purpose, you know, make an impact in this world. And it's like, Well, I'm just trying to pay the bills too. And it sounds to me as though I don't know that that was the case, but, but your aha moment certainly shifted you into doing what you were meant to do.
Miriam Schulman 13:22
Okay, so there's two aha moments. One, it's, I wouldn't call it an aha moment, but just like, that's what you're not meant to do. But the second one, which is really important, which is I what I want the business people are listening to hear, is, so at first, I didn't become an artist. I took a job working for a gym as a Pilates instructor, and they wanted me to sell personal training packages, and they gave us a lot of skills. They trained us how to sell because that's really what a lot of these gym models, they make a lot of money off of those personal training packages. And that I was shocked. I found out the other day from Equinox that the personal trainers maybe make $30 off of $120 personal training session that, you know, somebody might pay for anyway. So that's when I had my aha moment, because they were teaching me things. I was like, Whoa, I can use exactly what they're teaching me now to sell my art. And so ever since that moment, it's like I'm just going to go all in and use these things that they taught me to sell my art. And I've become a student of marketing ever since. And this is the gift that I give my clients, my readers and my listeners. Is because I'm saying, hey, this, this will work for you, even for art. And if you're not an artist, you know it'll work for you. So it's like, these are time tested strategies that work for anybody.
Joel Goldberg 13:22
I guess the message, being an artist can relate to this better than someone like me that has no artistic ability, at least in terms. Of, yeah, I don't have any artistic ability.
Miriam Schulman 15:03
You know, people say that, and I want to just push back on it. I get what you mean, because you're probably thinking of a with artists with an a capital A. Everybody has creativity, and you need that creativity in sports, in business. So that's like, what everybody has.
Joel Goldberg 15:20
I'm mostly just mocking the fact that if I were to draw or paint something right now, it would potentially be in the running to win the first grade contest. But, but yes, I believe that most of us, in some form or another, certainly in my profession, there is creativity. There's creativity in presentation, there's creativity in writing. There's creativity and delivery in on and on and on, right? So, yes, I mean, I totally understand that, but I think my my greater point is that there is a community of artists, whether it be within a certain area or worldwide, right? Artists may not be thinking along the way that you're thinking or have never been given that opportunity before. That was, if I'm understanding everything correctly and fill in the blank, it doesn't have to be artist, right?
Miriam Schulman 16:11
That's right. But to the book, the book that I wrote, it's not just for painters. It's for any person who's a creative but but a lot of what I do is helping people not just get over the belief, but it's also give them the skills that they need. So I was, I'm working with one client who, last year, made $13,000 and that was through galleries, and this year she's on track for six figures, and we're only in October. Yeah.
Joel Goldberg 16:40
That's unbelievable.
Miriam Schulman 16:40
Yeah, she, the last time I checked in with her, she was at 89,000 for 2024.
Joel Goldberg 16:47
Because Miriam, I think, I mean, some people are great at the creative piece of it, right? Some people know how to paint, some people know how to draw, some people know how to write. Some people know how to fill in the blank of whatever your skill is. But not everybody knows how to sell it, or vice versa. Some people know how to sell, but they don't have something to sell, whatever it is. And so it seems to me as though you have, you have unlocked this ability, not just for artists, but for people, to be able to go out there and leverage what their skills are, which is, which could be scary, right?
Miriam Schulman 17:15
Yeah, and she's an introvert, so it's not like, you know, people ask me that, do you need a certain personality. It's not about hustle culture. It's not about bro culture. It's not about being pushy
Joel Goldberg 17:27
On on your website, which is Schulmanart.com and we'll have that in the show notes, as long as as well as links to the book. It says, and we covered this, Back in the 90s, You'd find me at the World Trade Center in my Ann Taylor suits, but after 911 happened, I took it as a sign from the universe and made art my full time career. That was over 20 years ago, with many ups and downs along the way. Fast forward to today. Whether you're an absolute newbie or a seasoned professional, you too can learn how to grow a thriving art business so that you can have the time and freedom to create art and do what you love. Or as we just said, it could be other professions as well. What's the satisfaction level for this? And this isn't new. You've been doing this for a while. What's the what's the satisfaction? How do you feel about your purpose? I mean, how fulfilling is this work?
Miriam Schulman 18:13
I love it. So first of all, Joel, it was, I was a self. I had a sustainable career as an artist, selling my portraits for 20 years, and then the last five years, I've been helping artists do the same thing. So there's two things. One is very satisfying to me. It's always satisfying to be able to prove people wrong. So the you know, the people who said I couldn't do it, it's like, no, no, no, I did it. But also now the satisfaction of helping somebody make six figures from their artwork and give them that gift. I'm changing lives, so it's incredibly satisfying.
Joel Goldberg 18:56
And that's not something you could have ever thought about, or maybe it's something you did dream of. I don't know, you couldn't have thought of that when you're on Wall Street, the ability to change lives, or?
Miriam Schulman 19:05
No, I did. No, right? And it's like you, I think you talked about this at the beginning of the show. How, like, the circuitous route. You know, when I was in college, I never could have said, Someday, I'm going to be an artist, business coach, you know, who has a podcast,
Joel Goldberg 19:22
Right? Like, like, that didn't exist.
Miriam Schulman 19:24
No, it didn't exist. And I had to go through all these different things to get to where I am now.
Joel Goldberg 19:29
There's a quote I won't get it exactly right, but in, as I'm wrapping up my second book, and it'll be out in January, but in the the intro that I wrote to the book, I'm quoting one of my podcast guests who basically said that there are, there are jobs that don't exist right now for kids in, you know, middle school, that when they get out of college, we don't even know what they are. And I think about that a lot when she told me that I'd heard versions of that before, but it just resonated. With me, because who really has taken anything but a circuitous path? I mean, that's life, right? Nothing is point A to point B, and eventually, or hopefully, we learn that. For me, when I was seven, eight years old, I knew that I wanted to be a television broadcaster. I knew that I either wanted to to be the the guy on the news, you know, doing the sports at the end of the newscast, which still exists, but it's not the same, by the way, any more from when we were growing up, or the play by play guy and I went the news route and then ended up as the Pre and Post game show, host of baseball games and sometimes hockey too, in the past, and in game reporter and podcast host. None of those things existed. There were, like, I don't know, a half a dozen in sideline reporters that did the big national game of the week or Monday Night Football, like Lynn Swann or something. But there were, teams didn't have that type of stuff. There was no such thing as a pre game or a Post game show, maybe something national, and we certainly had no idea what podcasts were. So I think that it's a reminder to everyone out there that not only should you pivot, you're gonna pivot at some point, right? I mean, it just, that's just the world that we live in. And, I mean, I think we're probably similar in age, and it's it like there's stuff that our kids are doing right now that, you know, I'm starting to feel a little bit older because I got to ask them what it is. I mean...
Miriam Schulman 21:25
I use that card all the time. By the way, if I'm on the phone with some customer service, I tell them I'm really old. Like, I, I like, like, make myself older. It's like, Could you please help me? I'm from Generation X. I have no idea what you're talking about.
Joel Goldberg 21:40
Our parents left us home alone, and we, you know, we were Lasky kids. Yes, so. But hey, that's, that's our generation. I want to, I want to talk about the bunch of things. I mean, certainly the book, and the business, but I want to talk more about the podcast and what that has meant to you, The Inspiration Place. Tell me about the podcast.
Miriam Schulman 22:00
Now I had written down what my home run, biggest home run hit is. I think it's the podcast. It might be the book, but the podcast got me the book deal. So this, this has been my home run, and it was just something that I had started writing articles for a small, niche magazine. So about six years ago, and I couldn't believe just the access you got when you are the press. It's like, Oh, you mean I can just, like, interview people and ask them questions, and they'll tell me, like, this is amazing. So this was for a magazine, so I decided, well, next level is podcast. So I really started the podcast a little bit more for me than I did for, you know, everyone else, but I thought, like, this was the best way to get intel.
Joel Goldberg 22:52
It's interesting because I, I'm not gonna say, I tell everybody to start a podcast, but I think that, like, if you're going, if the goal is to go out there and have the, you know, number one rated, whatever podcast that makes millions of dollars. Good, good luck. And hey, go for it. But it doesn't really have to be anything, per se. It could be a podcast that highlights some of your clients and prospects. It can be a great storytelling mechanism, which it is for me, among other things, I think that's the beauty of this podcasting world. Is, if you could at least figure out, and there are a million tutorials, it's easy, the How to part of it, you know, what equipment do I need? How do I start it? Where do I upload it? What? You know, cover art, all these type of things, if you could figure that out, which is just a checklist of things to do, and maybe have at least a decent voice, or not sound like you're, you know, in a wind tunnel somewhere or whatever. It doesn't even have to be a great studio out of the house. Whatever it is that there's so many things that could be done with it. I'm wondering now, not after the fact, but during the fact, what that podcast you mentioned, it led to book deal and all of that, what that has done for the brand?
Miriam Schulman 24:08
Oh, it's amazing. I consider my podcast the gateway drug, like, if there's somebody who's who's never heard of me, like if somebody meets me on social media, the first thing my team has been instructed to do we have so we basically, we welcome everybody who follows us. And what we say is, hey, welcome. I help artists. Have did you find me because of the podcast or the book? And the reason I ask that Joel is because I'm dropping in a credibility marker. I have a podcast and I have a book because people follow you. You don't know how they followed you. And if they don't know about the podcast, the first thing they say, we tell them is like, oh, have a listen to the podcast. I don't try to sell them anything, because I know eventually, if they're for me, if I'm for them, they will make up the decision themselves by listening to the podcast very quickly.
Joel Goldberg 24:59
And it's not all. It's not all about art either, right?
Miriam Schulman 25:03
No, it's no. My podcast is definitely not all that art. It's very much, you know...
Joel Goldberg 25:07
Like mine is not all about baseball. There are baseball references, and sometimes there are baseball guests. I mean, I'm looking at the quote, unquote playlist, that's at least what I'm calling it, of the podcast. And some of the topics are, yes, some, I mean, some of it's about art, but I mean some of it beating back imposter syndrome. Who doesn't, you know, have that? AI versus creativity? Who's not talking about that? The real danger of TikTok? These are, these are really important topics that, as far as I look at it, what is the real danger of TikTok? By the way.
Miriam Schulman 25:22
Do we want to go there? Yeah, all right. Well, there's a couple of different things. First of all, it's influencing our elections, so that's part of it. But in terms of people who are using it for business, this, and this is what I tell people, This is how I have clients who are now making six figures, is that we waste so much time creating content for the Zuckerverse that really doesn't lead to profits. You, if you're putting a lot of time into Tiktok, you can have someone follow you and then never see your content ever again. So there are influencers on air quote, influencers on Tiktok, who people really have never heard of because it's very easy to rack up numbers of followers, but it's based on an algorithm. So when you if you're scrolling, and this is true of any social media, if you're scrolling any of them, you're not stopping to buy their stuff, you're going you're being pushed to go, to stay on that platform as long as possible. I know I've trained my Instagram to only show me cute cats and Simone Biles doing flip flops on the balance beam. So that's what they show me, you know? Like.
Joel Goldberg 26:49
Yeah, I do try to linger on. I just go through stretches of Tiktok. I'm there for a couple weeks, then I'm not there, but I'll try to linger on all the things that I think are interesting. So it'll populate that way. And exactly, yeah, if I stumble upon something that I had no interest in, I try to move by it as fast as possible. I've made the mistake once of clicking on a link to buy five polo shirts for blah, blah, blah. And now everyone that's that's, you know, selling polo shirts ends up in my feed. I'll get rid of them eventually. What a world that we live in, though, and so I mean it to me, it's, yeah, I guess I did just go down this rabbit hole. But that's the fun thing of these podcasts too, is that they could, they take you to interesting places we we live in, in this algorithm world.
Miriam Schulman 27:34
Yeah, I went to a talk last night, and they were talking about how the reason why people are so used to having a very curated experience on their phone that when the rest of the world doesn't match up to that, that's what creates so much anxiety for us.
Joel Goldberg 27:53
Yeah, not to mention election and people hate eachother, right. I mean, we're all in our own we're all living in our individual echo chambers.
Miriam Schulman 28:01
In our bubble, which I prefer. Like, after every debate, I was like, What do my people say about this? That's all I want to hear. I don't want to hear I don't hear anything else, right?
Joel Goldberg 28:11
We didn't have those options growing up. So it's Pandora's box at its best and oftentimes at its worst. Um, I'll come back to the podcast in my four final questions and ask you something like, you know, favorite episode, or, I don't know, it'll, it'll be something like that, but, um, tell me about the book as well.
Miriam Schulman 28:28
All right, so the book was something I thought of doing during the pandemic, you know, we're all stuck at all. I was like, Okay, this is, this is a good time to write the book. And I wanted to create legacy. This is something so you say we're about the same age. I think I'm probably older. I'm 55 so when you hit your 50s, you start to think more about legacy. Do you find that true? Are you 50?
Joel Goldberg 28:52
Yeah, yeah. Come on with all this white hair? 52.
Miriam Schulman 28:57
Ok. Alright. So, so do you understand what I'm talking about? Joel, how you hit your 50s, you start to think more about legacy. You're not thinking about that in your 20s and 30s. No, no. So, I mean, the podcast has some legacy, but, you know, some people stop paying for my Libsynaccount, it's gone. So I wanted to put something out in the world. I wanted to, I had stories I wanted to tell, like the finger story we mentioned earlier. It's, that's why I said to my publishers, no, the Wall Street chapter stays. It's like, I want to tell the story.
Joel Goldberg 29:27
Yeah.
Miriam Schulman 29:28
So, you know, there's things you want to put out in the world, and the writing the book was how I wanted to do it. And I'm writing a second book now, which you said you're writing a second book as well?
Joel Goldberg 29:38
Yeah. Yeah, it's close. It's should have been done a year ago, but, you know baseball got in the way, I guess. So.
Miriam Schulman 29:47
What's your new book about?
Joel Goldberg 29:49
It's similar to the first so the first one, you'll get a copy of it. I'll send you one. The first one was Small Ball, Big Results. So I've got the small the small ball question coming up. What are the little things that make people in an organization successful. Right? Baseball terms, the bunting, the sacrifices, what doesn't show up. Second one is Small Ball, Big Dreams. So it's just a continuation of storytelling, people in and out of baseball, and very much that gets back to that circuitous path. No one in that book, no chapter focusing on anyone in that book, has had a straight line of a path. One I will give you, I'll give you a little preview right now. Or, I guess I don't know if I'm talking to you, I'm talking to the audience. It's everybody, of course, one chapter.
Miriam Schulman 30:27
We know they're listening, though.
Joel Goldberg 30:28
We hope so. I'm not just saying this for you. One chapter is on long time Yankees Announcer, play by play voice, Suzyn Waldman. And here's a woman that was on Broadway. I don't know if it's as much of a 180 degree as turn as your career, but this is a woman that was on Broadway that didn't want to be typecast as the mom in every show as she was getting older. And she had sung national anthems, you know, at baseball games and sporting events, and had always been into sports, and so she is the first sports radio update person or talk show on WFAN in New York, first woman, and then she is covering the Yankees and Mets, ostracized by everyone because she was the only woman, was completely not talked to for a whole year, and on and on and on. And now she's a legendary voice for the Yankees. And any of the women that are getting into the business right now that are finally getting into the booth the way she is, not just on the sideline, are following in her footsteps. And so it's a lot of that in the book. And you know, it's, it's, as I said to you before, I'm, I'm a storyteller. I love this stuff.
Miriam Schulman 31:38
And I'm really glad you included that. What's going on. I don't know. I don't know. Oh, I'm glad you included that story. That was one thing else I wanted to make sure with my book that it was inclusive, because I pick up so many business books and art books, or there's not a single woman in the entire book. And it's like I wanted to recenter, not just, you know, recenter, everybody a little bit more, because there's so many interests. Many interesting stories that just don't get told, right?
Joel Goldberg 32:05
But that's, you know, I'll get, I'll get to that point, though. I mean, that's the beauty of the podcast, and then the book, right? You You get to choose.
Miriam Schulman 32:13
Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, I have a lot of control. So you know that, you know how I said, there's my side and the other side. If somebody's on the other side, they don't get on my podcast. I'm not talking Republican, Democrat, by the way, whatever. That's beyond the podcast I don't like in people's social media feeds. I'm like, do you know?
Joel Goldberg 32:36
I get it. All right. Let's get to the baseball theme questions. And you answered one of them, but we'll just, we'll just circle back on it, the home run, it's the podcast, it's the book, it's all of it, right?
Miriam Schulman 32:48
Yeah, the boot has...the book is going into its third printing, so it's definitely outperformed with their ex the publisher's expectations, I'm proud about that. Couple of swing and misses, is that the next question?
Joel Goldberg 33:03
Swings and misses, and what did you learn from them?
Miriam Schulman 33:06
Okay, so I'm always trying things, and not everything I try works out. I think Joel one of the biggest differences between people who are successful and those who aren't. Are successful people are willing to try things that unsuccessful people just aren't willing to try. So when I was promoting my book, I thought, Oh, my podcast does so well. I will do an Alexa Flash briefing on the book. Did you hear Do you know what Alexa is? Flash briefing? Not Alexa, but Alexa Flash briefings are?
Joel Goldberg 33:39
I don't know.
Miriam Schulman 33:40
No. Well, apparently my listeners don't either, so that was definitely a fail, and my my podcast editor was who was helping me put it out. She says, No, I love it. I was like, yeah, that's why you're one of the five listeners so and I have a friend who you may be a good fit for this podcast. She has the top Alexa Flash briefing. She gets 1000 listeners per episode. It's like a daily show. So that was definitely a swing and a miss. So I'm willing to try things and not everything I try works out sometimes, like, Oops. So that didn't work.
Joel Goldberg 34:14
That's one of the things where, like, when my I don't have an Alexa in this room, thankfully, or it would go off right now, alright? That's one of those things where, you know, I ask it for the weather, and then it says, Would you like a briefing in the morning, or would you like to set an alert for blah, blah, blah. I'm like, No, that's not what I was looking for.
Miriam Schulman 34:28
Yeah, yeah. So my friend Jen, she does mostly on a like, AI and systems things like that every day. Like, what's new in the world of AI? Other people do stuff about spirituality, so it's a daily thing. And the reason I thought it would work is because Alexa is owned by Amazon, and it would, I thought that it would be a great way to promote the book. But, okay, nobody listened, nobody listened to it. So yeah, but I'm willing to try and some things that I try work out really well. So I. But I'm willing to try things.
Joel Goldberg 35:01
You got to try them. And that's, I think, that's the I mean, aren't most artists willing to try things? Or do I have that wrong? I mean, I maybe I'm making too much of the creative spirit.
Miriam Schulman 35:13
I don't know. I think good artists are okay. So creativity, there's a famous Matisse quote, creativity takes courage.
Joel Goldberg 35:23
I like that. The final baseball theme question, small ball, what are the little things that add up to big results for you?
Miriam Schulman 35:31
Okay, so it's so boring, but this is what it is. It's consistency. So the podcast I started in 2018 and it's come out every single Tuesday since I started it without a break. Sometimes I will do an encore episode, but it comes out every single week. So that's just one example. But, like, it sounds like such boring advice for people like, think, What's the secret behind the podcast? It's like, you just, you just keep doing it. You will get better. You know, I started out there was only 150 listeners, and now we have 1000s. So this is part of what consistency gets you.
Joel Goldberg 36:11
That was one of the first pieces of advice that I had from a good friend of mine, who is a creative Editor video production business, long time friend up from junior high on, I mean, Midwest, after I moved to the Midwest and worked for Oprah, and he's he's done podcasts, and when I started mine in 17 he said, I don't care if it's once a month, if it's every other month, if it's twice a Week, if it's five times a week, whatever it is do that. And now it took me a while to figure out and to settle on once a week. There were renditions, and initially it was every other week, and then during the pandemic, it was three a week, plus two more on Facebook, which was a insane to be doing five a week, but I had nothing else going on. Baseball is out. But the point is, is to yours that it, I love that you mentioned it because, and I don't know, I mean, it certainly helps with the algorithms. It helps with people's mental out, like their actual algorithms of no wait, Miriam's podcast is coming out on Tuesday. Joel's podcast, by the way, is also coming out on Tuesday. So never miss I mean, I never miss an episode.
Miriam Schulman 37:22
Yeah. I mean, showing up is 80% of success. So.
Joel Goldberg 37:26
I have four final questions. But before I do that, I just wanted to ask you, because the topic that I'm covering, I don't usually announce it like this, but the topic I'm covering in my next newsletter is validation. We were kind of thinking about, you know, like a baseball team, whether it's the Kansas City Royals or whatever. Royals or whatever, where you have doubters along the way, and you have this goal, and then you achieve it. And you know the validation to that, you know, whether it's a chip on the shoulder proving people wrong or whatever it is. And so for you, you talked a little bit about that earlier. I'm curious how you've processed that over time. Like, this is who you are, this is what you do now. But what were the doubts like early on, whether they be externally or internally, in your head, what were those doubts like? And when did they start to go away? What did that feel like?
Miriam Schulman 38:15
Okay, so this is a great question, and I love it for whatever reason, with art, I didn't have as much of the doubts. But when I went to write the book, I had no problem believing that somebody would buy the book like the public, that I would get an agent and the publisher would buy into the idea. And it is a Harper Collins book, by the way. But once I signed that contract, all kinds of imposter syndrome creeped in. I was like, Oh, my God, they made a huge mistake. I should just, I should give my bonus back, or whatever, the signing thing back, and even when I was done with it, oh, nobody likes this. So it was huge. There was a lot of tears and a lot of maybe unnecessary drama over writing the book, that first book that I had to get over.
Joel Goldberg 39:08
What about once the business became successful, not just the book, in the podcast, the coaching. The, you know, the classes, all of that. I mean, it's a whole thing now, right? I mean, it is a whole you're not, you're not just being described as an artist or as a podcast host. It's, it's a whole thing.
Miriam Schulman 39:27
So I have a million dollar business, so it but it hasn't always been that way. And I remember there were times I used to say to myself, Oh, I'm just planting the seeds, and next year it's going to really grow, and the next year would come and be like, incrementally better or the same. I was like, oh, when's it going to be my turn? So now I don't feel that way as much. I feel like I I've got this. I know what I'm doing, but it did take me a long time to get here. I mean, you're interviewing someone who's 55 years old. It was a lot different, 10 years ago.
Joel Goldberg 40:01
Were there moments that you questioned it or wanted to give up?
Miriam Schulman 40:05
Oh yeah, I have. Sometimes I still have the secret fantasy that it would be a lot easier to work at Bloomingdale's like, if I have a bad quarter, it's like, Oh, I could have gotten a discount. You know.
Joel Goldberg 40:22
You're in the right spot. All right, let's do this four final questions as we round the bases. Who's that one interview on the podcast that just blew you away? Or either you couldn't believe you had them, or you you were just amazed at their answers. This is like asking who your favorite kid is, I think, to some people.
Miriam Schulman 40:41
I know, but we all have a secret favorite. I won't tell them, Okay, so I think just the one that pops into my head. I'm not going to go and say it's my favorite, but I did an interview with Jerry Saltz, who is the art critic for New York Magazine, and that is one of my favorite episodes. So that one was really amazing. But the one that dropped today, that I did with Perry Marshall, he's an expert on business and AI, and he was talking on the podcast. I was like, well, you need God to be a good marketer, or something like that. I was like, I'm Oh, I got you to say that. This is great. So that's another one.
Joel Goldberg 41:24
All right, that's good stuff. Second question, as we we round the bases. How much are you are you still painting? How much are you still working in the world of art?
Miriam Schulman 41:35
Not so much with painting now. So now, once I got over that, I'm not an author. Why am I writing a book? Now I'm writing a second book. So my creativity actually is going into my writing instead of my visual art. So I had to become a new person in order to write the book, and now I'm this new person who doesn't paint anymore, so I maybe someday I'll go back to it, but, yeah, I don't paint that much, and I don't keep that a secret from anybody.
Joel Goldberg 42:03
Is there anything with that? I've always heard not even Well, I guess anybody that's painting in some form or another is an artist. But I've heard a lot of people, whether it be sitting down to play the piano or or painting something that that it's a form of relaxation or meditation or escape, that that I'm guessing is not the case, or maybe it was at some point, or there's no time, I don't know.
Miriam Schulman 42:26
A lot of it also had to do with the pandemic, because I started the book in the pandemic, and things shifted a lot for me. So prior to 2020 I made my living as a portrait artist, and so that's and I was painting in a very abs, very realistic way. Once the pandemic hit, I didn't want to paint realistic things anymore, so I have done some painting, but it's not in the style that I was known for, and I've been keeping that art private. So I've been painting in a more abstract way that represents the chaos that I'm feeling. So there's, there's part of that as well. And I, I did. I have been asked to commission some some work. Somebody reached out to me. They wanted me to paint their puppy. I don't know how they found me, and I just decided I wasn't going to pick up my paintbrush for less than $1,000 and they said, Yes, it's like, okay, next time it's $2,000 you know? So.
Joel Goldberg 43:27
People love their dogs, by the way.
Miriam Schulman 43:29
Oh yes.
Joel Goldberg 43:30
I might. I don't know if I do $1,000 for a portrait, and then I've got a second dog. And so it would have to be both dogs.
Miriam Schulman 43:37
That's right, that's right. And then the next dog.
Joel Goldberg 43:40
Right?
Miriam Schulman 43:41
It's very luc- pet portraits are very lucrative.
Joel Goldberg 43:44
I have, I have no doubt. All right. Third question, as we round the bases, I think I know the answer to this, but it's always a fun question. Anyway, do you in any way one ounce of you miss Wall Street or that world?
Miriam Schulman 44:01
Yeah, yes.
Joel Goldberg 44:03
I thought this was gonna be one of those. Like-
Miriam Schulman 44:05
Oh, you thought it was gonna be, no?
Joel Goldberg 44:06
Yeah.
Miriam Schulman 44:07
Yeah, yeah. People look at me, and they, they, they can't see it, but it was exciting. I liked being I was on the razor edge of a lot of, some of the biggest things happening at the time. I liked being on the front lines of of those disasters. It was, it was, it was an exciting roller coaster ride. So, yeah, a little little bit of me does miss that. Yeah.
Joel Goldberg 44:37
No, that's interesting. The excitement, the thrill, the the pace of it, I would imagine, right? The there's a-
Miriam Schulman 44:43
Yeah, yeah. You know, being a woman in that world, don't miss that. But, um,
Joel Goldberg 44:52
Which I'm guessing has gotten better, but is -
Miriam Schulman 44:54
No, no, it really hasn't.
Joel Goldberg 44:56
Not at all. I don't, I don't a little bit.
Miriam Schulman 44:58
I don't know it. People don't talk about it as much. It's like, it's more gone. Yeah, brush that underground. Yeah.
Joel Goldberg 45:06
Okay. Final question, the walk off. We've touched on elements of this throughout the podcast, but I think anyone that is listening that wants to do something, try something, whether you're completely satisfied with your life or whether you're saying, you know, I don't like what I'm doing at all. It's hard, right? It's hard to make a change. It's hard to pull that plug and do something else. You did it, you had the motivation on many fronts. Could have never envisioned what it was going to turn into. And all these years later, at 55 it feels like to me that in in baseball terms, you're just hitting your prime, right? You're just hitting the sweet spot, so to speak with, with the way we would talk in baseball. And so it can happen. It doesn't happen overnight, but that, by the way, that's one of the problems with social media and Tiktok and influencers, is everybody wants to hit the and yes, somebody does win the lottery, but for the most part, you don't. So you got to do that consistent work every single day. What's your advice? Your motivation? A little bit of hope for anyone that might want to be starting something. And again, we're not talking necessarily about art here.
Miriam Schulman 46:05
Yeah. Okay, so we've touched upon this several times throughout the podcast, and that is that humans want to stay safe. Our brains have evolved for survival, not goal achievement, so anytime you're going to do something that pushes you and a little outside your comfort zone, your brain's going to come out with, come up with all kinds of reasons why it's a terrible idea. And the smarter you are, and the more creative you are, the better you'll be, you'll be at coming up with those reasons why not to do it. So that's what makes it so hard for people to set big goals and follow through with it, because you got to get out of your own way.
Joel Goldberg 46:49
It's great advice for everyone. I want to remind everybody, check out the podcast, the book, check out Miriam's work, Shulmanart.com, and what was the free chapter again?
Miriam Schulman 47:01
Oh, go to Shulmanart.com/believe. Or if you have the link to my Instagram on social media, which is also Shulman art spelled with a C - DM me the word believe - and I'll send it your way. That's for the free chapter.
Joel Goldberg 47:19
We'll get that in the show notes as well. S, C, H, U, L, M, a, n. I like to say it, but people can look at it right in the notes and do that. Check out the podcast, all of it really, really cool stuff. I'm so glad that we had a chance to do this. I'd say good luck to the Yankees, but by the time this runs, it's already over. I don't even I'm not wishing you good luck either way.
Miriam Schulman 47:40
No, you're not supposed to.
Joel Goldberg 47:42
No, I know. I have.
Miriam Schulman 47:43
We have a good friend who's Ed Coleman, who does what you do for the Mets is, yeah, his wife sold us, sold our house. Yeah, different religion.
Joel Goldberg 47:54
It is, it is it is fun, though, right? What is, by the way, the difference between Yankees and Mets fans. So I'm going to end on that
Miriam Schulman 48:00
There's a huge difference. Yeah, I really, you know, it's kind of like the Jets and the Giants too. So, you know, we, you know, Star belly, sneetches. I don't -
Joel Goldberg 48:10
It's not really geography. Sometimes it is. It's not necessarily.
Miriam Schulman 48:13
It's not necessarily, but it's Yankees are more old in New York. Mets, it's more like usually it's more Mets and Jets are usually more Long Island, but not necessarily it's more blue collar. Sometimes I'm going to say something really that I will regret. So I stopped talking now.
Joel Goldberg 48:36
I was going to say we could cut it out, but it could have been really good. So well, ended up I have no idea why I just decided to solve, or not even solve. Explain Yankees versus Mets other than all I can say is that I don't get to Mets as much I get to Yankee Stadium. And I, you know, I have the same hatreds. The wrong word. I'm in the business, so I don't really care that much. Like, it's just, it's just another day always for me. But, you know, I'm probably like the rest of the country that views them as the evil empire, yet I love every chance I get to get up in the Bronx. It's so much fun. There's just an energy to it. I'm down on the field doing our pre game shows, and inevitably, some cast from some Broadway show is walking by to sing the national anthem or something like that. There's just always something going on. And it's not just one thing, right? The kid from The Sandlot is walking by one day. I mean, it's just like, you never know who you're going to see, but you're always going to see somebody I don't know. I don't know that. That really sums up the differences.
Miriam Schulman 49:29
I don't know, I think a sports team spirit is a good thing. So I don't think it's a bad thing to have team team spirit and rivalries. I mean, I think we should be putting our that energy into -
Joel Goldberg 49:42
Yeah, and I'll wrap it up with this.
Miriam Schulman 49:43
Instead of hating people, people because of other, you know, way they look, or their religion or something else.
Joel Goldberg 49:50
Amen on that. 100% if that's the best part that comes of me bringing up Yankees Mets, I totally agree with it. There's too much hate in this world and and if. Hate can just boil down to two teams not liking each other. You know, all you have to do is, is look at the crowds at Yankee Stadium and at O'Shea Stadium. At the time 9/11 and the way it brought people together. And we were, we were, we were at Yankee Stadium this year on 9/11 so the ceremonies and just there was just a feeling again there. And so that's something that certainly I'll never forget. Miriam, this has been so much fun. I really appreciate you spending time talking about your world, the world of art, the world of entrepreneurship, the world of taking chances and so much more. I think there's a lot that people are gonna learn from this. Thanks so much for spending time on Rounding the Bases
Miriam Schulman 50:39
Well thanks for having me. This is a lot of fun.